A recent Angus Reid Institute poll that suggests three quarters of the significant majority of Albertans who want no part of Alberta separation would leave the province if Alberta separated from Canada appears to have thrown separatist supporters into hysterics.
This is really weird. After all, these are by and large the same MAGA tough guys and convoy critters who are always proclaiming their utter contempt for us “woke” sissies.
Now they’ve come down with a case of the vapours at a pollster’s suggestion a lot of Albertans not only aren’t buying what they’re peddling, but would seriously consider getting the heck out of DOGE in the event they succeeded in pulling Alberta out of Canada.
What’s more, apparently they’re blubbering about being called traitors for wanting to break up our country. Remember, these are the same nice people who never hesitate to assail anyone with a little time for human rights, due process or, God forbid, diversity, equity or inclusion as woke, snowflakes, libtards and much worse. Projection, anyone?
It would seem that after repeatedly making it clear that they’d like us all gone from their meaner, MAGAfied, gunned-up Republic of Alberta, they’re wetting their pants at the thought the response (via Angus Reid) of a lot of Canadians living in Alberta would be, “Sure! No problem! I’m outta here!”
I mean, seriously, who wants to be ruled by the likes of Danielle Smith with no recourse to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Notwithstanding Clause notwithstanding, let alone by the unelected traitor tots who are running off to Washington D.C. to negotiate our future with the Trump clown show whether we like it or not?
If you doubt me about this, consider the by turns sarcastic, hysterical and bitter allegations in a column by a writer from the U.S.-controlled Postmedia newspaper chain.
“Who is feeding the Chicken Littles telling us the blue skies of Alberta are ready to fall?” wondered Postmedia political columnist Rick Bell, who it would be fair to say has excellent sources in the United Conservative Party and whose columns often reflect views widely held in UCP circles.
“2.5 million people leaving Alberta. Who believes this? Hands up,” Mr. Bell wrote. “So we have the Alberta apocalypse. Who cares if it is even remotely real? Hysteria sells. Political points can be scored.”
Well, among the people publicly worrying about the high cost of separation is the Edmonton Chamber of Commerce. “This is really bad for the economy,” Chamber Vice-President Heather Thomson said late last month. “If Alberta does move to a separate state, it is going to take decades for people to come back to seeing Alberta as a great place to invest.”
Say what you will about the Chamber of Commerce, they don’t sound hysterical and they’re not exactly cultural Marxists.
Opponents of Alberta separation, Mr. Bell also complained, are “building up the loathing.” Why, the Alberta Teachers Association even told country crooner Paul Brandt to get lost, presumably for a social media post boosting independence. Quelle Horreur! (That’s French, by the way, which according to Premier Smith is being shoved down the throats of sensitive Albertan jurists, and not just with their breakfast cornflakes.)
“It would be nice if the self-styled patriots presented a rational case for Alberta staying in Canada rather than just sliming their fellow Canadians,” Mr. Bell complained, signing off by predicting that someone will call him a traitor.
For the record, I don’t think Mr. Bell is a traitor. I don’t even know what he personally thinks about separation. But he and Postmedia do give a lot of oxygen to some pretty unsavoury characters and their dangerous ideas. And he’s misguided when he says Albertans worried about what would happen in the event of separation are hysterical, unreasonable or making stuff up.
Of course, Mr. Bell is right that, no matter what happens, 2.5 million people aren’t going to pull up stakes and leave all at once just because a separatist referendum is put on a ballot by the semi-covert separatists of the UCP Government. Indeed, it won’t happen even if, God forbid, the referendum narrowly passes and the Alberta Prosperity Project’s U.S. allies start rattling their sabres.
Just because a million or more people would consider leaving Alberta in the event of separation, doesn’t mean a million would. Unfortunately, a number of them will be stuck here for financial, family or physical reasons. And if things got worse after separation, which they likely would, more will want to leave and have even more trouble doing so.
But if the Angus Reid Institute is right about who would want to leave in the event of separation – or even just a separation vote, with or without U.S. threats and interference – they won’t all have to move away to kick the crap out of your overpriced Alberta real estate investment. Ten or 20 thousand would probably do the trick! Nor would that do anything to make buying property in B.C., Ontario or Nova Scotia cheaper.
If you doubt me, just remember the iron law of supply and demand.
So, yeah, that’s a possibility that it’s reasonable to worry about, beyond the value of your Canadian citizenship, your passport, your human rights, your pension, or your retirement savings.
For example, putting aside the rosy picture painted by secessionists, do you really think voters in other Canadian provinces would allow their politicians to give up half the Canada Pension Plan fund to bankroll a Republican Alberta pension? If you do, you must be getting all your information “from alternative media sources (50%) and conversations with friends and family (45%),” as Angus Reid’s pollsters politely put it.
And when the cheerful case for post-separation Canadian generosity to Albertans and the Republic of Alberta economy being spread by the UCP-APP zealots turns out to be political vapourware, don’t count on it that it’ll be easy getting your savings out of the new country.
Historically, countries with weak or developing economies – like, say, a brand new petro-state at the start of the electrification era – frequently adopt currency controls, including the amount of currency that can be exported. Argentina had currency controls as recently as 2015. The United Kingdom, for heaven’s sake, until 1979.
If you think an Alberta Republic teetering on the brink of insolvency for whatever reason wouldn’t do the same thing to its remaining citizens, especially if their savings had been converted into free-floating Wild Rose Cryptonias or whatever, you need to think again.
Of course, I’m sure some separatist will tell you at the dinner table, or in the pages of your favourite online “news source,” that’s just impossible, and I’m being hysterical. And anyway, it would only be temporary …
The Angus Reid poll made public on Feb. 9 was based on an online survey of a panel of 979 Albertans in the field from Feb. 2 to 6. It may or may not be completely accurate, but it does strongly suggest that Albertans are not all “the common clay of the new West.”
This is a can of worms that Danielle Smith and the UCP opened, because they are part of the contents of that can. It should come as no surprise. Thomas Lukaszuk’s Forever Canada petition isn’t getting any attention from Danielle Smith and the UCP, because they want to disregard it, in favour of Jeff Rath’s separatist petition. These Postmedia columnists are bedfellows with the UCP. Rarely would they scrutinize the UCP, and when it does happen, it’s very weak. The comment sections have a defense of the UCP, and nasty insults get hurled at others who don’t go along with the UCP’s warped agenda. Someone who didn’t support the UCP was called a communist. It isn’t going to improve under the UCP, and this could have been avoided if Albertans had listened to people who said the UCP weren’t any good to begin with.
Smith is outright lying about Lukaszuk right now. She’s claiming he withdrew the referendum and he’s saying he didn’t and doesn’t even think that’s possible. A separatist smugly repeated this to me while I was trashing him in the YouTube comments. Then I saw Lukaszuk on CTV disavowing it. Seems like an escalation on her normal gaslighting and smells of desperation. Her minions are lapping it up though.
A lot of people moved to Alberta over the last few decades and still have connections to other parts of Canada, so a million plus number leaving is not unreasonable. Even life long Albertans may go. I know a life long Albertan with family connections to the UK who casually mentioned they were thinking of leaving if Alberta separates, which surprised me.
Even if only some leave, it could still destroy the housing market and seriously destabilize the economy. Separatists do not appreciate the challenges they are facing if they think they can easily turn long time Canadians into happy republicans.
Also as the saying goes, if Canada is divisible so are its provinces. What happens if say Edmonton, big parts of northern Alberta and possibly Calgary want to stay in Canada? The new republic could end up being a Swiss cheese rural rump and it has no army to keep these parts of the province in their new republic.
Then there is the issue of the hundreds of billions in debt this new republic could start off with. Because of this, I doubt it would be able to have its own currency. So it would either have to stick with Canadian dollars, or find something else. In either case, this means monetary and economic policy would be made somewhere else where we would then have no say.
Lastly, it would be naive to think export pipelines crossing other provinces would continue to operate as is. The best case is tolls would increase considerably, the worst is they could be shut down. And don’t expect the UN to enforce this, they have no army and can’t even get some of their bigger members to pay their dues.
Of course the separatists don’t want to think about all this and they really don’t want us to either. Still there are a lot of problems with their not very well thought out plans.
Even before all the separation talk the brain drain started. The way teachers were treated put the nail in the coffin. The way that medical professionals have been treated for years. The complete disrespect for science and fact in this province is deafening. Everyone who has any sense left is already gone and many more will shortly follow.
In the third paragraph: “pollster’s suggestion a lot of a lot of Albertans” there appears to be a double “a lot of”.
The article by Rick Bell kind of begs the question was his article serious or some sort of early April Fools joke? Obviously mass migration out of Alberta would be devastating, and reminds me of the mid 1980’s where many left Alberta for work in Ontario. The problem this time is where do you go? B.C. is over-priced and filled with tree huggers, Saskatchewan would probably go along with the separation thing, Manitoba doesn’t look too bad, and anything further east will be very expensive and too far away if one has some family remaining here.
OA: Thanks. Fixed. D
Not all of B.C. is over priced. Those places do have a winter with snow and ice, but Albertans are used to that and teachers are in short supply in more northern areas. as to less expensive places to live, some areas in the Maritines are quite inexpensive. Now of course, where do you work would be another question, but I saw nice homes in the $300K to 400K range, I think in NFLD.
Not every one will leave immediately but over time, they might if things become worse after separation.
Of course the Indigenous People may advise Smith their treaties are with the federal government and they aren’t interested in Alberta. that may make it difficult to get around in Alberta
I’m always amazed that albertans think other provinces are overpriced. What city do you live in ? Maybe some of the smaller centres like Wetaskiwin could be called “affordable” rents in the capital and the economic capital (Calgary) are outrageous. There are plenty of cities in British Columbia that are just as “affordable” as alberta is, the only real difference is the PST, which many people have posted on their blog about their willingness to pay. Jobs ? Please, a huge percentage of the workforce of this province is either working remote or flying out of their community to do so.
Not only that, but alberta has some of the most restrictive and exploitative rules for tenants in the country. Plenty of folks already want out of this province, what are they going to do when separatists come and burn down the economy because they hate trans kids with pink hair ? They’re going to sell all their shit and get the hell out of here. Half of them are already planning to do it when they retire anyway.
Alberta Politics February 10. “If any MLA on this list feel they have been unfairly portrayed as supporting independence when they do not, all they have to do is drop me a line. I’ll ensure Albertans are immediately informed they support Canadian unity.” DJC
Did any do so?
As of right now, none. And that includes Mr. Cooper. The only response I have received is from the UCP Caucus press secretary, which is quoted in the piece. DJC
It isn’t hysterical to be a proud Canadian first, and an Albertan second. It also isn’t hysterical to question whether a land-locked independent Alberta will be as rich and prosperous as has been advertised, particularly in a world awash in inexpensive oil, as is certainly the case now. I have to think of the situation for myself, my kids, and my future grand kids.
In the unlikely event Alberta does decide to leave Canada, my family and I will be moving so we can continue to live in Canada as Canadians. My ancestors came to this place well over 100 years ago, so leaving will be hard, but staying would be worse in the long run.
You know it’s true when Mr. Bell pulls out his Chicken Little schtick of denialism again. How many times has he done this? It’s getting old, like the separatist Garden of Eden, where money grows on trees forever (trust us on that). Who cares? A lot of us, who see the Stayfree™ crowd matching up and down the streets, wielding their flagpoles like clubs. Hysteria? My asp. I’ve been discussing the Alberta-pocalyse with others this week and wondering when would be the best time to sell, before the American real estate magnates drive prices into the toilet.
I value my Canadian citizenship, my passport, human rights, my Canada Pension Plan and other savings. I see no room for further discussion with the free-range separatists in my neck of the woods, whose idea of conversation with their neighbours involves heavy use of the “F” word. Same to you, folks.
Here’s a little food for thought for the premier and anyone else who thinks an exodus won’t happen, as it has many times in the past.
Un Canadien errant,
Banni de ses foyers,
Un Canadien errant,
Banni de ses foyers,
Parcourait en pleurant
Des pays étrangers.
Parcourait en pleurant
Des pays étrangers.
My family came to Canada as part of a mass exodus. Similar events over time in world history brought many generations of people here to Alberta. Why would anyone think it couldn’t happen again?
Dear Alberta Separatists,
You’ll be getting about 12% of the pension. That’s your share you paid, per population. In other words, you’re being sold a bill of goods about what Canada “owes” you. In fact, I’d wager that you won’t even see *that* as Dixie Dani is busy dismantling and selling all social services off for privatization.
Oh and have fun with health insurance because you won’t be getting any. What you’re getting already is being gutted and that trend will continue until there’s not a penny left and you can do like the Americans and pay $2-7k per month in health insurance premiums.
Let’s add to all that–we want our pipeline money, back. All of it. Before you leave. We paid for it, it’s ours until you’ve paid the bill which you now won’t be getting a penny of–because that’s not how the USA operates their oil corporations. They keep the profit, you get the shaft.
What happens to your Little House On The Prairie tax base when 1/5 of your population runs out the door? Private investors need skilled labour and you won’t have near enough. You’ll be considered unstable and un-investable…just like the USA is, right now. Auto manufacturers, steel manufacturers and investors are fleeing there like the world’s biggest elevator fart just took place.
Wait until the Americans start setting up house in Alberta. Oh yes, you’ll get more gun rights and they’ll be rushing across the border, guns in hand, their banks hoping to buy up your farmland for cheap to build agri-businesses. No more farm protections.
How are you going to handle the First Nations uprising that will take place with support from across the rest of the country? After all, the RCMP and CSIS will no longer be obligated to provide you with any information about our movements or plans. How do you plan to stop the flood of us across your borders?
Maybe you all should stop acting like teenagers who have no cohesive plan to run away from home because they want their sister’s room and start negotiating with Mom to pay half for nicer furniture and a paint job.
@ B I think you have it right. Lawyers warn that there would be nothing stopping her from canceling the majority of our pensions using the excuse that we have received a lot more than we ever paid into it. Like we all know we have. The most I ever paid into it while working was $114. per month and I am getting $1,121. per month. So why would I want this fool to destroy that? The problem with these mindless seniors is they can’t handle the truth, they aren’t man enough. So they believe the lies.
Mr. Bell is correct when he pooh-poohs the idea that 2.5 million people would leave if Alberta were to separate. Since the population of the province is only 5 million, some of those 2.5 million would have had to have voted for separation in the first place.
That said, Angus Reid’s one million could easily be accurate. My wife and I are 2 of them, and we have been thinking about where we would like to relocate to. One nice thing about separation, housing will become affordable in the new republic as we loyalists take a beating on the sale of our homes as we leave.
I don’t think currency export will be an issue, because most people’s nest eggs are in a federally regulated, Canadian bank. As a result, it would first have to be exported to an Alberta bank before the Republic’s authorities could exercise control over it. That said, people whose assets are in the Alberta Treasury Branch might want to consider switching to a Canadian bank.
They want to hold a low turnout referendum where only the separatists show up and the rest of us are caught napping. They want the illusion of a majority. Then they want the Americans to back it. If they somehow pull it off I could totally see 2.5 million leaving.
I will never forgive the Traitor Tots for the completely unnecessary stress that they’ve caused in my life. I’ve made a list of all the businesses in town which are owned or staffed by people who support separatism. None of them will ever get a penny of my money again – even after the referendum fails.
‘Traitor Tots’. Perfect summation.
Good plan too, and I will try to follow it too.
I plan to stay, and one plus (as Dave pointed out) my rent should go down a lot!
If the traitorous UPC wins and depending on the options for getting rid of them, I’ll not move. But it is in the back of my mind. Where to go, when, how, etc. I do know a family that has a very detailed action plan. They know where, how and they even have procured a car, so it’s ready for them when they get their and no, it’s not the U.S. It’s sad and frustrating, that Alberta and her citizens are even thinking of this. And of course, Alberta will need to change it’s name, because heaven forbid, we allow it to continue to be named after, Princess Louise Caroline Alberta. Lake Louise, would need a name change too, as it was named after her as well.
Yeah about that- I can’t see Jasper, Banff or Wood Buffalo being part of the new nation, but if we go down that path why not national parks but yes you can separate Treaty lands? The whole thing is so absurd but you can’t deny that stupid and absurd and a having a moment.
As for me and my family, we immigrated to Canada from the USA and are proud Canadians. I appreciate the opportunities Alberta has given me but our place is with Canada and the values it stands for. We will move and, if it comes to it, we will take up arms in support of Canada against the US. I say that with a heavy heart and knowing full well what it means. It will not be the first war of brother against brother on this continent.
Well…, welcome to Canada. 🙂
It’s very likely I can see travel restrictions applied to all Albertans, unless they are members of the esteemed governing party. This is statism gone Stalinist.
I recall from my RPC days this subject came up, about how to deal with people who don’t like the RPC. While the RPC rank and file would be vehemently opposed to concentration camps of any form, they have no trouble accepting such a measure as a rational solution for those who are “troublesome”. It was this extraordinary parsing of definitions that caused many to walk out of the RPC for being a Trojan Horse for totalitarianism. While Stephen Lewis declared that Preston Manning would never bend to the whims of dictatorship, there were far too many in the RPC who felt a deep kinship with Stalin — well, everything except for the communism.
RPC? Republic Peoples Of China?
Scott: This, I am sure, is a reference to the Reform Party of Canada. I am surprised a “Free Alberta” supporter like yourself wouldn’t have known this. Now, I see that you have made 16 comments this afternoon, some of which are not very useful. While I am committed to free speech, and believe that if one is going to dish it out, as I frequently do, being prepared to take it is part of the deal, I intend to whittle this down to a much smaller selection of comments I deem to be useful. I am, after all, the Decider when it comes to who gets to comment and how much on this opinion blog. DJC
Further to my last comment, in the end I deleted all but two of your comments. Some I found mildly interesting as an insight into the separatist mindset, but those tended to be in posts the purpose of which was to abuse other commenters. One additional point: You Will Have Better Luck Getting Your Comments Printed In Moderated Forums Like This One If You Don’t Capitalize Every Single Letter, Which Makes Your Sentences Hard To Read. djc
I once read a funny anecdote about the “iron law of supply and demand”. The writer attempted to use the local script in a Laotion village, and was rebuffed, with the proprietor accepting only US dollars but while he was still on the premises, Pathet Lao guerillas successfully undertook a transaction with the merchant using the very same currency that had just been refused. The apparent difference in the exchange being the automatic rifles carried by the guerillas. Is it relevant to the situation in ‘Berta? I don’t know, but it’s a funny story.
‘Traitor tots’ is pure gold and should now be the go-to sobriquet for these fools.
Well done!
So this is not treason? What are we waiting for?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-administration/canadian-separatists-alberta-meetings-trump-officials-rcna258230
Hand up. Looking at Shuswap & Invermere area. Family & friends in both areas.
Independence is a fantasy, mostly held by simple-minded conservatives who believe Liberal governments are intolerable and the only way to free themselves from that horror is an independent Alberta, safely governed forever by Conservatives. But independence swiftly followed by incorporation into the United States is not a fantasy. Certainly many Albertans would head for the exits if that became likely enough to happen. It’s not so much a matter of how many, but of who. Professionals would leave. Doctors, nurses, teachers, academics. Why on Earth would they stay. And they would leave behind a greatly impoverished Alberta, owned and controlled by American corporations.
Listen, this has all happened before.
I lived in Quebec when the PQ got in for the first time in 1976.
There was a floods of Anglos (and businesses) going “down the road” to T.O.
Having lived in the east end I knew enough not to panic.
One consequence was that house prices fell through the floor. At 26 years of age I was able to get a house for at least 50% off.
CONSEQUENCES
@David Climehaga As A Born & Raised Albertan I Will Not Mourn If You “Woke Folk” As You Put It, “Leave”, That Is Your Free Will Choice & Alberta Will Carry On Without You Quite Nicely I Think True Albertans Are Survivors.
The Gaslighting Is Strong Here From Your Chat Responders Too, Do You Ever Plan On Posting My Replies That Are Awaiting Your Moderation?
They Are Matter Of Fact But Quite Civil Unlike Your Biased Article Which Is Clearly Not Objective “Journalism” But All One Has To Do Is Look At CBC, CTV & Global In Addition To See True Journalism Is Dead & Gone.
@scott As a born and raised Albertan I will not mourn you and your ilk leaving either. True Albertans don’t wish harm on their friends, family and neighbours because that is all separation is going to do. Anyway, I really hope you get your keyboard fixed soon that’s pretty annoying.
How do you find the time to do that Capitalizing Every Letter thing? Is that a setting? It sure does set your comment apart from the others.
S T F U!
Adieu.
You forgot Juno, a true bastion of fair and fun journalism
Scott. I guess you did not read DJC’s suggestion on how you use capitalization. Unfortunate, as trying to read your post above is way to hard on these old eyes. I did struggle through it, but never again. If it’s published, I’ll skip it.
I read Albertapolitcs because it is a voice of experience, talent, insight, honesty and respect. A rare thing in today’s world imo.
@Scott
Point of order here. This is an editorial opinion blog not an article. Sometimes DJC posts articles, this isn’t one of them.
You aren’t alone in misconstruing the difference, it appears these days that many readers can’t and even some news outlets seem to be having difficulty making that distinction for the past couple of decades, at least.
“Wokeys” leaving, if Alberta attempts separation, would be the least of Alberta’s problems.
Start with utter and complete financial devastation. Have you looked at the UK lately? And they only left a Union of countries that did business together and freed border crossings–never mind fracturing a whole country where you will have angry Canadians on three sides of your borders, internal/external Native uprisings and a fascist oligarchy drooling to eat up your oil and real estate industries for their profit, to the south of you.
I’ve yet to see a single concrete reason why Albertans actually want to leave. Canada isn’t stopping the TMX pipeline, the United States oil magnates, are. They’re refusing to pay for it and for good reason, it’s not profitable enough for them. The rest of us already paid not only for your pipeline, we paid for the mess the oiligarchs left behind that they were legally obligated to clean up. They ate the fines out of *your* profits and left the mess. So, we’re not building you another over the rightful objections of another province and First Nations. If you want to say that Amazon got money to be in Quebec then bailed–you’d be right and frankly, we should have kicked Amazon out of all of Canada right then and there.
You’re wanting to run yourselves like a country inside a country next door to the world’s most violent and greedy techno-feudalistic empire on the verge of collapse thrashing about looking for military adventures to avoid their domestic problems. That’s not how it works. At least, as far as I can gather from Smith’s obtuse ramblings, that’s what she wants. Her own country, answerable to no one. Straight talk now. She can’t have it. Not now. Not ever.
If you’re just trolling, you’re not doing a very good job of it. To troll well, you have to be obstructionist, have the ability to construct an argument trap with a full understanding of the subject, first. I don’t see anywhere in your post/s where you truly have a grasp of the consequences or benefits to Alberta that would accrue by separation.
Or if you do, you’ve failed to provide them.
Typing mindless slogans in capitals isn’t an argument, it’s a sign of cult-like brainwashing.
Four Legs Good! Two Legs Bad!
Scott, folks like you have been trying to bully me my entire life, and more than a few of them ended up with a bloody nose along the way.
No one is scared of you, shut up and sit down fool.
As our amazing Canadian hockey team begins the Olympic tournament, all you Alberta separatists can just eff right off and cheer for Team USA. You’re not allowed to peddle your puerile fantasies, and then cheer for Team Canada, losers. But I’m sure Dani and you traitor tots will find a way to justify it.
maybe it’s time for some deportation of our own, about 27% of alberta wants to seperate? then they can be given a 1 way ticket to the location of their choice, they don’t own the land and they never will, i don’t know where that delusion comes from but yea
My family and I will leave Alberta. My two sons work for DND, the Department of Defence, which will definitely leave. DND will take the weapons and much of the infrastructure, leaving very little behind. It makes me sad that we would have to do so since I was born here. But my loyalty is to Canada. So, wherever the Canadian Armed Forces end up, that’s where we will be. If the US decides to take Alberta by force, if they have become the fascist state they are working toward, I doubt Canada will come to your aid. You may want to call yourselves “stretched out Puerto Rico”.
I would pick up and leave Alberta. I am Canadian but I am done with all this separatist nonsense in Alberta and I hate how it our reputation is being destroyed by the premier and ucp. I will sell the houses and get the hell out of dodge and never come back.
I want to hear more about these “traitor tots”….
Does this mean the federal government could have “mashed traitors” for dinner. Or maybe we need to have a “traitor blight” come along and wipe them all out?!
No, wait. They ARE the Traitor Blight.
If Rick Bell wants to hear reasonable arguments against separation he should spend some time reading something other than the puerile trash he’s been churning out for his entire career, the mostly excellent comments on this blog might be a good place to start.